The Femme Fatal
True Crime - Femme Fatale Style
The Femme Fatal tells the stories of women who commit crimes, blending true crime, pop culture, and astrology to explore power, obsession, and the darker side of femininity.
The Femme Fatal
Toxic Temptress: Kristin Rossum
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This week on The Femme Fatal, we’re covering Kristin Rossum, a toxicologist who turned her expertise into something deadly.
What starts as a suspicious death quickly unravels into a story of addiction, affairs, and a woman who thought she could outsmart the system.
Brains, beauty, and poison are a dangerous combination.
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Welcome to the Femme Fatal, a true crime podcast with an astrology twist. I'm your host, Stacey Dotson. Each week I'll be joined by a guest host because this femme fatal prefers not to work alone. Welcome, guys, to the femme fatal. Today I'm being joined by my friend Stephanie that I've known forever. We're going to talk about the toxic temptress, Kristen Rossom. Hi, how are you? I'm great. Good to see you. Good to see you too. And so, what interested in you in picking her for this podcast?
SPEAKER_00Well, to be honest, the drug abuse with the work that I do with my job, or well, I mean, I work in school finance, so Yeah, I was like, oh, go ahead and elaborate. But I work in school finance, but prior to that, I worked with students, you know, taught in the classroom, tested students, worked with students who had difficult home lives, or there was something, some kind of barriers, you know, to their education, and products of parents who were addicted to drugs, you know, things like that, and the kids themselves. So in this particular case, you know, it's a terrible situation. It just shows you what crystal meth can do because that was her drug of choice, Kristen's drug of choice. And the fact that she had every advantage growing up: privileged and spoiled. And so you can take someone, because you know, you and I had like a little hard scrabble time. You know, we're working to pay for school and going to school. That didn't stop us from going out at night. And we worked pretty much full-time and went to school full-time. Here's a girl who grew up privileged, Southern California. Both parents were professors at colleges in the area. She just had every advantage. But she got into crystal math when she was a teenager. And honestly, she never really could truly kick the habit. And so what amazed me about this case was the staging and the fact that there was like affairs happening. And she just did what she wanted to do. And because as a society, when we look at someone who, you know, is poised and gorgeous, and you know, yes, she was pretty much, she was like polished and put together. You don't think that somebody like that will do this. And I really feel like she thought she was gonna get away with it, but she was high. Her staging was low-key dumb. So that's why I was interested in this case because you know, you just because you're a user doesn't mean that you're going to grow up and you know, murder somebody, but every advantage. She had every advantage, and she just did what she wanted to do. And, you know, when we get in the story of how she met Greg, all of it you can pair it down to drug addiction.
SPEAKER_01It makes people do the craziest things. And I mean, you can't think straight, you know what I mean? It's just, I don't know. I don't know from experience, especially crystal meth.
SPEAKER_00So, you know. Do you remember that one time we were out and we were waiting in line to get into a club or a bar, and there was a guy that was like gray. He was in line behind us. You knew him, you said like the color gray? He was gray and looked really gaunt. And you're like, oh my god, that's what crystal math does. And I'm thinking, like, oh, I don't know what that is, but oh, I'm not gonna do that. Definitely, let's not do that. I mean, basically, if somebody passes you a glass pipe, you just keep it moving down the line, like you don't have to take a drag. I don't remember that, but I'm certain that I said those words. Yeah, you're like, that's what happens. I'm like, I don't know what that is. Yeah, so just to give you some background on her, like I said, she grew up in Southern California with her parents, two brothers, and lived a charmed life. I would imagine she didn't go to public school. She was at different schools. You know, as a child, her mom had her in modeling. She was involved in dance, ballet particularly, which was not, you know, that's not unheard of. But apparently she was really, really good at the ballet piece. Was in a San Diego production of The Nutcracker as the sugar plum fairy, like she was probably about 12, flawless. Well, she injured her foot, she like broke her ankle or did something. And so dance was not an option at that time. So then she just became really depressed and started, you know, acting out, kind of talking back to her, you know, teenage stuff. She was like 12, very bright. I mean, we're talking about, you know, gifted academically, held to a high standard. Parents have their expectations.
SPEAKER_01Right, especially professors, I would imagine.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah. And she had a real knack for science, the sciences, which probably 89, 1988, 89, that wasn't really, yeah. I mean, you know, girls, we were taking science stuff because we had to, but it wasn't really in the mainstream for girls to do that. So she, I guess, was invited to a party. You know, she had like a group of friends and they were all very similar, like polished and rich and what have you. But she was depressed and found, I guess, the emo crowd or the depressed crowd. So she kind of like fell in with that crowd. So she went emo, you know, like I'm gonna dress a different way, I'm gonna look a different way. And oh, by the way, somebody passed me crystal meth. And I want to say it was like at school, and she was all about it. It took away, you know, her depression from not dancing and helped her to manage like the stress, I guess. And then she began running away from home. Her parents suspected, you know, some drug use, but she would go like away for days at a time and nobody knew where she was, and she'd reappear. This continued. Her parents sent her to rehab uh multiple times. She would get clean, she did graduate high school, but then you know, this cycle of I'm on meth, no, I'm not. So I want to say that somewhere around there she met this boy named Teddy Maya. Let's say she's like graduated high school, 18, 19 years old, meets this boy, he's not into the drugs and all of that, and was helping her to get and stay clean.
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SPEAKER_01Oh, that's good. Didn't turn out that way, but at the time it was good.
SPEAKER_00And a typical, you know, a nice looking guy, had a good job, educated,
(Cont.) Toxic Temptress: Kristin Rossum
SPEAKER_00you know, a catch.
SPEAKER_01She was gorgeous, right?
SPEAKER_00She was beautiful, blonde hair, like hazel eyes, greetings tiny, and I want to say, like, maybe, you know, 5'4, 5'5. So, you know, just very striking and used that. To her advantage. Oh, yeah. So Teddy's like, yay, you know, we're gonna do this. And and you know, her parents swooped in every time. They had her at different universities. I think her dad taught constitutional law at the University of Redlands, and that is where you know, she ended up going. Then he went to work for Ronald Reagan for constitutional law and different things like that. So, you know, he was kind of in and out. So Teddy that was kind of on and off for a while, but she ended up relapsing and you know, had gone over to his place, and he went to take a shower and she robbed him and ran away. That was the end of like Teddy Maya. He just gets out of the shower and he's like, Hey, hey, hey, oh, where's what's going on? Oh my wallet, you know, what is up, and just so she messed that up royally. But it was okay because then, you know, she could just go guy hopping and like find the next person. Mom and dad were always there with open arms. She was definitely spoiled. I mean, whatever she wanted, she could have, which is problematic because, you know, she knew her parents were gonna dig her out whenever she needed help or insist that she needed help. I do know at one time when she ran away, her parents suspected that something was going on, and so they looked in her backpack and found a glass pipe with some residue on it. And then they tried to do like a low-key intervention, which basically consisted of, what's this in your backpack? And her saying, that's not mine. She did graduate college, but it was during college that she met Greg DeVillers, who would become her future husband. And the way that she met him, that's why I picked this case. So if you're ever wondering if you have a drug problem, if you are on the regular driving down to Tijuana, walking across the bridge and going through the turnstile, so that you can find your cab driver in Tijuana. You got his card, and then he's gonna drive you where the drugs are and like do the deal for you. When you're doing that, you may have a drug problem. I mean, just a little one, not she had it all planned out and she went on the regular. And I'm thinking, why didn't she just buy in bulk? Like so confused.
SPEAKER_01Like, you know, like the Costco of drug deals.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Like get a big amount. Why are you doing this every day? Like, do you have time to do anything else? But as we know, from people who are using, it doesn't matter what's going on, they will do whatever they can. So she is on one of her little adventures. Oh, and by the way, it's in the morning. So if you're waking up like, oh, I'm gonna make my coffee and oh crud, I'm out of meth. What am I gonna do? Oh, I know, I'll just drive my little 20-minute drive to the border, park my, you know, Mercedes, and just walk across. So, and dude, she's doing this by herself.
SPEAKER_01Help me timeline-wise, how old is she at this point when she's meeting Greg?
SPEAKER_00When she met Greg, let's see, during the mid-90s, she meets him around 1996, 1997, right around that time.
SPEAKER_01So I'm just trying to figure out how long she's been using. So you said she started at 14 using drugs. We don't know for sure it was myth, but at this point she's in her 20s. She'd be like 19 or 20.
SPEAKER_00So she's been using five, six years. About five or six years. And she has like the telltale signs, her family, and whatever friends she had, because she really didn't have a lot of friends, you know, mostly boyfriends. But she did exhibit the signs, you know, just kind of like that gray complexion and uh scabs, you know, on her face, weight loss. And then she would do what's called geeking. Okay. Geeking is when you pick at your nails, huh? So, like, you know, you have your fingernails and you're picking at them, and they're a mess, and it's just one of the side effects. Her family could tell when she was using.
SPEAKER_01I've never heard that term before. Geeking to me is like I have, but in a different way. I know it was like geeking is like, let's go to Comic-Con, and you know, geek out.
SPEAKER_00Or, you know, you're in middle school and you're, you know, smarter than everyone, and they're going to be geek. Or so, anywho, so she's like 20, doing these little Tijuana drug runs in the morning by herself. So she walks through the turnstile, is going walking on foot to get to the drug area of Tijuana, or like to find her cab driver. She's looking good, you know, polished. She's wearing like a really expensive leather jacket because, of course, that's what you wear in Mexico. And this guy is walking by in this group of guys, it was Greg and two brothers, and he picks up her jacket. My guess is he like raced to pick it up because she's like really pretty, and he's like, Oh, you dropped this. So they hung out in Tijuana all day, and then she just kind of stayed with Greg and moved in. She stayed that night and never left. Wow. She told him about her drug use and trying to stay clean, and you know, he's like, Well, I can help you, but she just kind of moved in. So the brothers are kind of like, Hey, there, she lived there, and and then here she comes, just kind of hanging out and staying at the place and not paying rent, and they continue with their schooling. He's, you know, gonna help her, and she graduates summa cum laudi. She graduated in 1998 from the San Diego State University, so she had been to different schools, but she finally graduated, and when she was clean, it was a sumacum laudi situation, and then she began working for the San Diego Medical Examiner's office as a toxicologist. Greg was in biomedicine, so he was kind of doing lab work too, but more on the biotech side. And then he asked her to marry her, and she's like, sure. But also not before Jerome, the brother, noticed, hey, where are all my checks? I opened up my checkbook and I'm missing about five.
SPEAKER_01Has anyone seen them? So that's what I was gonna ask. So was she clean this whole time or was she just hiding it? Probably hiding it.
SPEAKER_00I think what amazes me about Kristen and her crystal is she could literally go without for a while. Huh. And then she would relapse. So it's like, is it recreational use? Because I don't really see that as a drug that's recreational. But she stole from Greg and Jerome. His parents were wealthy and successful. Dad is some sort of doctor, he travels the world, you know, mom is doing something. So I'm thinking like by design, that was another reason why she could marry him, because she's thinking, well, you know, I am trying to please my parents, so here's the sky, and he's certainly a catch. And he's very attractive.
SPEAKER_01Right. So they were both, yeah, both very attractive and privileged.
SPEAKER_00So they get married in 1998. But mind you, she's already having affairs.
SPEAKER_01Okay. I knew about an affair that took place. I read, I watched a little bit of uh YouTube videos on her because I didn't even know who it was. A workplace affair, right?
SPEAKER_00Workplace affairs, people around town, somebody she met at CBS. I mean, it was just kind of like anyone. They got married in 1998, 1999. She was working at the San Diego Medical Examiner's office, got a new boss. She was newly married, and then her new boss, Michael Robertson, that's who she had an affair with. So he was like one of the leaders of the medical examiner's office, you know. So she marries him. But then she starts up an affair with her boss, like within a week of him starting working. And he was married, but he had lots of affairs. So it's just like a mixture of disaster, but he did not know about Kristen's drug use at first, at first. So she's emailing him, her boss back and forth, suggestive emails, and then then at the same time, she's, you know, emailing her husband on how wonderful he is, and then I guess she had time to run some toxicology testing. I don't know. She spent most of her time with her boss. Greg didn't really suspect anything. This is a guy who works like 12, 14 hours a day at this biotech company. He's a very hard worker. His boss at Orbigen and the coworkers, you know, they have doctorates. And he was always like the first one there and the last one to leave, and things like that. He may not have had time to notice all the signs because it's like a whirlwind romance, you know, with a side of crystal. You know, you get married and then you, you know, your first year marriage is like, oh, everything's so awesome, you know. It not that it's still not, but you know what I mean. That first year is like, this is so great. You know, it's a red flag. She'd been working there for, you know, not that long, but wasn't telling him like the daily what about work, and all of a sudden it's like, oh, Michael, this and Michael that, and they got their own apartment, but Jerome is still there going, dude, like, come on, man, like something's up. What is with you? Where are my checks?
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00Where where did my checks go? His brother is noticing, hey, where's mom's jewelry? Where are my checks? You know, but his brother is still all the way team Greg, and no one in his family was particularly enthralled with her. So she is with Michael. They're leaving for lunch every day, they are going to hotel rooms, they are going parking, they are coming back freshly showered. The office is just kind of like yuck. And, you know, at that time, 1998, 1999, sexual harassment was a thing, but third-party sexual harassment, not so much. It was just easier to look the other way. But his boss at the toxicology office, Michael's boss, I want to say his name is Dr. Brayburn, he gets complaints about this. And he has two eyes and two ears, like he can see and hear what's going on. I mean, the guy's bringing Kristen Roses like to her desk every day.
SPEAKER_01Uh, so yeah, I mean, they're not hiding it at all.
SPEAKER_00No, love notes that people find them lying around. So one day Kristen has a love note. This is where it gets cagey. Anything that Kristen says is just her version of events. So we don't know what really happened in the apartment as far as conversations, it's all what she said happened. And she is high on drama. High on drugs and drama. Yeah. She is just high. And so when she says things that go on, it sounds like a story or a movie. And speaking of movies, American Beauty had come out, and that was like her favorite movie. I can tell you, I watch a lot of movies. American Beauty was one that was hard to watch twice, but she loved that movie, girl. So that kind of gives you because I do have some psychological workups of her. Okay, yeah, I'm interested in that. Yeah, it would take a very different kind of person to say, this is my favorite movie, and her behavior mirrors that happen in the movie. So she gets a love note from Michael, brings it home, and according to her, she's reading the love note, and Greg comes in and grabs it from her. Of course, I'm sure he'd asked her, who is this Michael guy and why should I care? I mean, heck, now we would be Googling him and like, who is this person? But back then it was they were still texting using the flip phone. So hello would be like click, click, click. Yeah. So I mean, there was some texting, but mostly it was email and handwritten notes. So according to Kristen, Greg sees the letter, grabs it from her, and starts reading it. And then she freaks out and puts it in the shredder. Okay. And then he takes it out of the shredder and tries to tape it back together. And it's halfway done. This was not long before the murder. Was it an exhibit or something in the case? That note, that was one of the things that stuck out to the investigators because I don't know about, you know, she's newly married. They were only married a year or something? A year, even less. And so that's not what guys do. They don't tape notes back together. They don't tape notes back together. So she's saying that. And so his taping or her taping or whoever was taping it, that little project was sort of like on the kitchen table in the apartment. So she then is telling Michael, her boss and partner, about what happened. And Michael says, Do you want to go to this conference with me? I mean, I just started here, but sure, let's go. Let me check with Greg. And again, this is all according to her. Greg is against it. But Greg, this could really enhance my career. I'm going to learn so much. Well, is Michael going to be there? Oh. Probably. I'm not sure. Why? Is that a problem? As he's apparently taping the note back together. Is that going to be a problem if Michael is there? So whatever went down, they go to this conference, and the deal is, and this is interesting too, this guy's a smart guy. He's got a beautiful wife, beautiful house, highly educated, from Australia. He is asked to present at this conference, and he wants to co-present with Kristen. In order to do that, she has got to present something at the conference. Meanwhile, all his friends are like, everything's going to blow up in your face. You're here on a work visa, so what are you doing? And she is going to present a paper that was obviously written by Michael on some type of toxicity. And she's just reading the slides. And at the presentations at this medical conference, the people don't necessarily ask questions or follow-up. They were asking a lot of questions on purpose to call her out. She's getting flustered. She got all upset and ran over to Michael and he comforted her.
SPEAKER_01In front of everybody on the panel?
SPEAKER_00In front of everybody. Said, you know, go easy on her. You know, she's going to be so great. Of course, they're sharing a hotel room. He said that, you know, yeah, he was thinking about leaving his wife for her. But anywho, Greg's busy at home, you know, working, but it was at that conference that they kind of really started planning this murder. He was involved in the murder, too.
SPEAKER_01Okay, I'll wait till we get there, but I didn't know that.
SPEAKER_00Yes, that is laid down because he was never charged. I'll kind of explain why. They really started planning it because everyone needs to buckle up because they went to one of the little workshop presentations and it was about a very little-known drug in 1999-2000 called fentanyl. That was a little known drug. It was not tested for in a toxicology report at that time. You know, if you were going to do a drug test today, I believe fentanyl would be at the top. Top of the list. And it's one of those, you know how you go into breakout sessions and they're like maybe 10 minutes, and they're like, are you thinking what I'm thinking? Yeah. Hey, we both work at the ME's office. Let's look at this a little bit more carefully. So they come home and now they're really kind of done with their spouses. And you will hear me say they a lot because Michael was just as much a part of it as Kristen was, if not more, honestly. He was not a drug user, but he participated in this. So they get home from the conference and they have solidified, you know, kind of how now we're really starting to plan for what's going to happen. So fentanyl was going to be the drug of choice. So a couple of things happen around this time. One of the things that happens is you're a drug user and you're working at the toxicology office. So, you know, you've got all kinds of access to not only drugs, but drug standards. So you've got pure forms of every type of drug you could ever want to know. Because if you are looking for oxy in somebody, you have to have a standard on your shelf to test it against. Now, even though my son is a scientist, I am not, but I do watch a lot of true crime. You have to have a standard. There were 15 patches of fentanyl in that envelope, and they were never recovered. All 15 ever. But on Kristen's side, she also had access to some fentanyl. And so it is believed that, well, I mean, do the math, there was 10 milliliters of fentanyl pure standard in a container when the place was searched later, or the container was there, but the liquid was gone. Now, to give you an idea of 10 milliliters of liquid fentanyl or a patch, the patch, let's pretend it's like half of my bone. Like I don't really know how big they are. To give somebody fentanyl in a non-lethal dose out of that patch, it would be a pinch. Like you don't need the whole patch. It would kill you, it would shut down your organs and kill you. But those 15 patches that were in Michael Robertson's possession were never recovered to this day. So that goes missing. Greg is becoming very depressed and despondent. When she gets back from her conference, she says she wants a trial separation. She loves Michael. She's not really in love with Greg anymore. She's really sorry, but you know, it's kind of over. But he's still going to work every day. His coworkers don't notice him upset or depressed, or he's not mentioning anything about marital issues. Now, I know guys don't come in and like talk about that all the time, but it's a small office. There's like five people.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Even if you're not talking about it, if you're depressed and you know what she said, he's changing, he's depressed, that you would notice like little things you would see.
SPEAKER_00No one's like saying anything, no one is surprised about his behavior. Then we get around to the time of the crime. So November 5th, 2000, she goes to work, he goes to work, but he leaves early that day. It's on a Thursday. Gray goes home early, like a half day, which his coworkers and boss thought that was a little strange because he never really took any days off. But the next morning, she calls in sick for him at his office. And in order to get through this ordeal, our girl is really hitting the meth hard. I was about to say she's back on it. Yeah. She is really hitting it hard. So again, mistakes are made. So that morning she calls his office, but what she does is she calls Greg's own phone extension and leaves a message on Greg's own voicemail. That's weird. Yeah, she doesn't call the main switchboard, she doesn't call his boss, she leaves a message on Greg's voicemail. So meanwhile, his boss comes into work. This is November 6th, Friday. He comes into work, Greg is nowhere to be seen. He's like, What is going on? Has anyone heard from him? And so he starts calling the apartment. Because again, this is back in the days of landlines. You know, people have cell phones, but like I said, it's mostly landlines. He cannot be reached. So, you know, the boss is calling around, calls Kristen. Like, I don't know. Kristen is busy as a bee. She's going back and forth to the apartment all day. She leaves in the morning. She says, Greg is sick. I've got to go check on him. She goes and checks on him in the morning. Then at lunchtime, she goes back. According to her, he's okay. He's just groggy. He was able to, you know, eat a little bit of soup, but then he pushed it away. So she figured he's still mad at me. He's depressed. She goes back and forth to the apartment, I don't know, four times that day. There have been reports that on the voicemail she left, she said he would be out sick that day and maybe the next day. Okay. But at this point, you know, people are getting concerned, like they haven't heard from him, but they're thinking, well, you know, let's just see what happens. So the real timeline of events is that she leaves work. Greg is dead in the bed from a fentanyl overose. And he has been dead since probably 7:30 that morning. And I think she keeps applying more fentanyl. I think, in order to get him to where he was immobilized, she did prick him with the fentanyl needle, it is believed, because when he was found, he had three needle pricks, two of which were done while they were working on him trying to resuscitate, and then the third one can't be explained. The poor man has been dead in the bed all day. Michael comes by and they go to the grocery store. They go to Vaughn's because now they're really he's dead, and now they're gonna work on the cover-up. So the real story is not what she told police.
SPEAKER_01So Michael him coming by is odd because he's the other man, you know what I mean? Yeah. And so him going by the house in that he probably never did that before, I would imagine.
SPEAKER_00You know, I don't know. I mean, it's possible that you know, poor Greg is like out there working, but he goes over there uh-huh in reality, and Michael and Kristen go to the grocery store, and what they purchase are cans of soup, a bunch of other things. I try to read the receipt, not a large grocery list, but some different items, including soup and one red rose. Then she for sure, I think he probably drops her off at the apartment, and then she proceeds to stage the scene. So this is what she says happened. She says that she got home. She'd been checking on Greg throughout the day. He'd been groggy, but he was certainly conscious and talking to her. She gets home from work. She said she'd fed him soup earlier, but she says she gets home, she's tired. So she goes and takes a long bath and shaves her legs.
SPEAKER_01I don't know why this is important, but okay.
SPEAKER_00And I'm thinking, why would you say that? Does that extend your bath time? I shaved my legs. She comes out of the bathroom, you know, puts her pajamas on, and then she notices that Greg is lying on the bed with a bunch of rose petals around him, their wedding photo by his side on one side, and on the other side was a journal of Kristen's that she had written specifically for this staging. And she calls 911. And if you listen to the 911 call, she does sound very distressed. The operator is trying to explain to her how to do CPR. And she asks if he is on the bed. And Kristen says that he is on the bed. And so the operator says to please get him off of the bed onto the floor so he will have a hard surface underneath him. Now she is on a cordless landline phone. So those are kind of clunky, right? This would be hard to hold, you know, and do CPR, but you could at least have it on speaker. One of the things that I thought about, because I was rereading John Glatt's book on this. We weren't really using speaker phones back then, right? I mean, we really weren't. All of the phones had speakerphone capability, but we all figured that was just annoying to other people. So she was not on speaker. I thought to myself, well, the 911 call is a huge piece of evidence. So why is she, you know, not on speakerphone? Because we didn't do that. So she's got the phone here, and the operator is telling her to give him two breaths and then give him 15 chest compressions. She manages to get him off the bed. She says, I don't know if I can get him off the bed, but she does manage to get him off the bed. I don't know if she puts the phone down for that or not. Probably. She picks the phone back up again, and basically what she's doing is she's pretending to give him CPR, which is what the prosecution says happened because of her behavior on the phone. The operator's saying, give him two deep breaths, you know, put his head back, and she's basically just blowing into the phone. And then give him 15 chest compressions, and she's like crying, and she's counting, like one, two, you know, she's counting. This whole thing is recorded. All of it. And you know, I've never given anybody CPR, thank goodness. Yeah, I haven't had to. It would be a little bit more difficult to do that than just counting to 15. You know, it would be more taxing, you'd be tired, you know, but she's doing it, and they're like, you know, is he breathing? Can you feel a pulse? No. Okay, we'll keep doing that. Two breaths and then 15 compressions, and they're on their way and they will get here. This is what we picture is happening during the 911 call. What she's really doing is she's restaging the crime scene. She's got the rose petals now. Now she's sprinkling them around him on the floor, probably furiously taking hits of meth. So now he's between the bed and the wall. So it's not a very large space, which is also difficult to do CPR. Like it would not look the way it looked. So now she's like restaged, and we've got the petals are going, we've got the photo is up against the wall, the journal. I think maybe it's laying across his like, I don't know. But she's kind of doing that. And so when the paramedics come rushing in, our girl is standing in the kitchen, yeah, talking on the phone. She's not even in the same room. And they're like, where is he? And she points, but she does not go over there into the room. And she's just, you know, crying and upset, and they're working on him. So they get him in the ambulance and take him to the hospital, still working on him. So who's there to help and comfort her and support her at the hospital? Not her parents, not Greg's family. Michael, he's there. At this point, they get him to the hospital, they're working on him. They call it about an hour after he arrived at the hospital. He is pronounced dead. Michael is actively comforting her in the waiting area. The doctors come out and ask if she would like to see him, and she says that she would. Michael stays behind, and she goes in and is like, you know, wailing and crying and laying her head on his chest. And oh my Greggie, and you know, what did you do? This why did you kill yourself? Oh, she said he killed himself. Yes. Why would you leave me this way? She starts setting the scene for the suicide. So then the people at the hospital think it's a little strange that her friend doesn't go back with her, but he doesn't. He stays behind. She comes back out, they're standing in the hallway, like by wherever Greg is, and embrace and share some French kissing. Are you serious? Typical death response. They're Frenching in the hallway. Oh my god. So it's at this point that the police arrive and they want to interview the two of them. Well, Kristen for sure and Michael also. Because at this point, everybody believes it's a suicide. Yeah. The people at the hospital, but it's okay because they're going to do a toxicology report at their own office. No worries. That report is going to come to our office, and so we can do whatever we want with this report. We're going to use this report to claim suicide. There are lots of interviews. The behavior is definitely strange. It's off-putting. His family is having none of it. The suicide piece. The people, his co-workers are like, no, there's not a lot of direct evidence, but they're certainly circumstantial. The best direct evidence they have is the toxicology report. So when she's interviewed at her apartment, she kind of gives herself away because I think, you know, she gives herself motive because she says that he found out about her drug use and that she was having an affair with her boss and was going to call her work and turn her in and him too, and her drug use if she didn't quit her job. I think that's true. I believe that part too. And that may have been a convo they had that Thursday afternoon. You know, he presented her with evidence of drug use. They're not trying to hide the affair. So he's like, I'm just telling them that you are on drugs if you don't quit. So kind of sped up the process a little. And so that's why that went down. I do believe that is the motive for this, because otherwise they could have just gotten divorced. Gotten divorced, you know. So going back to the investigation, they've got it in the bag. They're just waiting on the toxicology to come back so that they can do all of the tests for all of the drugs except fentanyl. She's given him some oxy, she's given him some Valium, actually clonopin. It's a sedative, but it's also an anti-seizure. I think she was buying more than just meth in Mexico because I think that's how she was able to not be on meth 24 7, was she had other drugs to help her with withdrawal. And a pain medicine would have done that, and a sedative would have done that. I think that he did find out about all of that and was threatening to turn her in. So they had to speed up the process. So they're waiting on the report. And carrying on their affair. Now she they are having services for Greg. She is, you know, breaking down. She is visibly upset. Her parents are there, you know, oh, it's gonna be okay. His family's kind of giving her the side eye, you know.
SPEAKER_01I guess their lab, their toxicology lab, was the lab for the police department. I get that now.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we can make it look like however we want, and that's why, you know, she takes the brunt of this. I mean, she did apply the fentanyl, it was her husband, but they're just waiting on the report. The Emmy's office did put Greg's toxicology at the top of the pile. You know, they had other things to look at, but because he was married to one of their toxicologists and employees, his was done right away. Michael's boss calls him in and says, Hey, there's a conflict of interest here with our lab doing Greg's toxicology. So we're sending this to an independent toxicologist.
SPEAKER_01Oh, okay. Their plan did not work.
SPEAKER_00According to the police, when they interviewed his boss, Michael looked shocked. He was a bit gray himself. A third party does the report and they do find oxycontin in Greg's system, and it goes by different names, but like I said, quantipine, it's a sedative. But not enough to kill him. Just a little bit is in there. But they also find the timeline that he had been dead for several hours before Kristen called the police. And this is the part that absolutely kills me. His lungs are full of fluid, and his bladder is full, girl. It was like two days at least worth of urine. So she was dosing him, maybe like she was dosing him. I think she dosed him the first time with the needle just because that would immobilize him so that she could keep applying. I don't know about the patches and if there were marks from the patches, but she was dosing him. I just hope that he was knocked out so much that he didn't feel any of that. When the muscles shut down, like I was surprised that like that he had anything in his bladder that it didn't empty after death. But no, so he's got all this going on, but still he doesn't have enough in his system to kill himself. Investigators, female and male, are saying, what kind of guy throws the rose petals? This is like way dramatic. It's very American beauty-like.
SPEAKER_01Yes, her favorite movie.
SPEAKER_00And they ask her about the rose at many of the interviews, the police investigators, and she says that her husband had brought her a dozen and a half roses for her birthday a few weeks earlier. Four had survived, and then it was down to one, and then this is the one. And he must have used that because all of the rose petals are there, and the rest of the rose is next to his body, and what have you. I guess you don't have to be like a botanist to know that that was a fresh rose. You know, it was not one that had been sitting out for a week and a half. So they start looking more into her activities. She did say that she had given him soup. This part she got right. She must have emptied out a can of soup somewhere because there was an empty can of soup in the trash. You know, so parts of it she remembered, but a lot of it she did not remember. So the toxicology office, that the third party, you know, they send it out to another lab. They're like, hey, can you run some more stuff on this? Like, we found this and this, but this guy is like dead. They're saying he OD'd. Now Kristen's starting to change her story that maybe it was an accident. You know, he didn't mean to do this. Because his brothers are coming at her hard. He's not suicidal. Like, what are you doing? Like, what is up with you? Also, where are my checks? You know, that kind of thing. So she is saying, like, I don't think it was suicide. Maybe it must have been an accident. You're right. So she's got all kinds of stories going around, heavily using meth and basically muffing it all up. So the third lab finds an enormous amount of this mystery drug, fentanyl. And it was enough fentanyl to kill like 20 people. And they knew that there was no way he could have administered that much to himself, and then also done the weird staging. So that's when they, you know, started in earnest turning up the heat on Kristen, and she was arrested not long after that. So she had means, motive, and opportunity. The staging is probably what did them in. I think if she hadn't heavily staged it so much, it wouldn't have raised too many red flags. I still think they would have wondered about why his bladder is so full and his chest so congested. But you are gonna love what I'm going to say next. This is how they traced the rose back to her with the receipt. They went to a grocery store, she and Michael, called Vaughn's. When she made her purchase, she used cash, but she used her Vaughn's card to get the discounts. So all they had to do was just go to Aerie grocery stores and ask them to run it through and around this time and they traced it back to her own card. Wow. The police also asked her why she had not changed her name. So she didn't change her name. She just said that, you know, her reasoning was his last name was De Villiers, and she said it was just too hard to spell. So she was arrested. She sat in jail for a year while they put together their case. The parents got her bailed out $1.25 million, and they posted her bail so she could come out and be at home until the trial. But when the trial started, they were fresh out of money, so she didn't need to go with a public defender. And because this is not a heavily publicized case, you didn't have any of those, you know, top dog lawyers, ambulance chasers wanting press and attention. She just had, you know, a public defender, which believe me, they're pretty good ones. And once her trial began, she did elect to take the stand. Now, the trial itself was not filmed. It was pretty quick. I mean, it wasn't like any months-long trial. I think it may have lasted, you know, a couple days a week at the most. And she did take the stand, which did not work in her favor. It rarely does. But I think she was hoping that she could charm the jury because that was what she was best at. And she looked amazing at trial. Polished suits, like hair is up and blonde, and I am all put together, and just the right amount of makeup, and but the jury didn't buy it. And so, you know, she was found guilty and sentenced to life in prison, where she still is. But you know, a person who was not around for all of this was Michael. Yeah, he just headed back to Australia. He did? He left back to Australia? Yeah. After the arrest, they were fired from the Emmy's office, the both of them. The thing about Kristen Rossam is it's hard to find stuff on this case because it just wasn't like in the mainstream. It wasn't heavily covered nationally. And I think today it would be. The information I have, it kind of stops after her appeals were exhausted. She's currently 49 years old today. I find that she's still in prison and that he runs a consulting business in Australia.
SPEAKER_01Yes. Okay, so we get to the astrology part. So she was born November 9th, 1977, which makes her Scorpio's son. They're known for emotional intensity, privacy. Of course, that doesn't really track with her open relationship, but deep psychological awareness, and they often experience life in extremes and tend to guard their inner world closely. For people that, you know, don't really know, like your sun sign is your overall basic personality, right? The Scorpio energy. They tend to gravitate towards environments where people are dealing with deeper, darker parts of life. Well, toxicology, you know what I mean, where she worked, cause of death reports and things like that. Her Mercury, which is your communication, the way you communicate, is also in Scorpio, right? And typically that's a very good trait in people. That means that they're open. If their sun and their mercury are the same, they're true. You know what I mean? Like they know how to express themselves. Now, what gets a little crazy here is so her Venus, which is the way you love your sex, your flirtation, is in Libra. Venus is actually ruled by Libra, like the planet and Libra are associated together. So this placement can make someone socially polished, charming, very aware of their appearance, and it often comes off as graceful and persuasive, someone who knows how to connect with people and move smoothly in social situations, right? Social environments. Now, the dark side of Venus and Libra is that sometimes relationships can overlap and blur. You know, in her case, like she began that extramarital affair with her supervisor, right? That is very right on for her. And then the Mars, Mars is in Leo, Mars is your action. And Leo, you can get your feelings hurt, and if you're not getting enough attention, or you feel like you're not getting respect or attention that you deserve. So when you combine the Mars and Leo and the Scorpio sun, you can get like intense, strong, reactive personality. She seemed that way. The part of this that I love is her Venus, her love. Like, cause it's like fluid and she knows how to flirt to get what she wants. So I feel like that was definitely dead on. But anyway, so that's her in a nutshell.
SPEAKER_00I mean, that's pretty crazy because you think about, well, that could apply to this person. I go, but it all applies to her. I wonder what would have happened if she'd never tried meth.
SPEAKER_01She might still be vain and had an affair, but I think that, you know, she probably would not have murdered, you know, it's like she would think a little more clearly.
SPEAKER_00But she wants to present herself as a victim and present herself as someone who needs to be taken care of. And she was really all about love and adoration and wanting to be with someone. I think it was very telling that she left Tijuana with a guy who found her jacket. I know that's crazy. There's something in her personality and her psychopathy really that gave her the confidence to do all of those things and just to like stay with him.
SPEAKER_01So I was gonna ask, like, why did they plot him and not his wife? But it's because he was gonna get her fired, right? Get them both fired.
SPEAKER_00I think that it all came down to that. Greg was gonna turn them in. And really, all Greg wanted her to do was quit her job. Right. And I think, you know, if she'd really loved him and wanted to make it work, she would have quit her job. She would have quit her job and quit the affair. Yep, there's no way she was quitting her job. But he was right to request that. I mean, it wasn't a big ask. It wasn't a big ask for him, but for her, it was just like, what? No, I need to be with Michael, and I really don't understand why he would participate as heavily as he did in this crime, but then she was charming. Because what does he care? Okay, so her husband, like maybe he's thinking he's gonna get in trouble because he's having a relationship with a subordinate. There's also been some talk about him knowing about her Methuse and covering it up and not reporting it could be a bad look. So his job, he got fired anyway. So he high-tailed it and went back to Australia to Brisbane, and now he's got a career there. Yeah, having a vegemite sandwich and doing whatever he wants to do. Okay, well, thanks for coming and being on the show. Girl, this is so great. I told Charlie, I was like, this is like a professional operation. He goes, What's a podcast? I'm like, Are you freaking kidding me?
SPEAKER_02What's a podcast?
SPEAKER_00Like Joe Rogan. I'm like, sort of. I said, What about serial? Yeah. I said, remember that? I said that was the first podcast that we listened to as per your sister. And so when I told him again what it was this morning, he goes, Okay. He goes, so you're going upstairs, and now that you know so much about husband poisoning, you're ready to teach it. I said, Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, so clearly he does all the cooking. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01It was so great to see you. It was so great to see you, and you'll be back. We're gonna do another one.
SPEAKER_00Have a great day. Bye. Bye now.
SPEAKER_01The Femme Fatal, created and hosted by Stacey Dodge, produced by Mark Williams, music by Marcia Yingling, Chad Jake, and Greg Loikano.