SPEAKER_01 0:44

Welcome to the Femme Fatal, a true crime podcast with an astrology twist. I'm your host, Stacy Dotson. Each week I'll be joined by a guest host because this femme fatale prefers not to work alone. Hey everybody, welcome back to the Femme Fatal. This week's Femme Fatale is a little different. Our subjects are usually women whose stories leave us asking, how could someone possibly do the things they did? And while Ludmila Pavlinchenko was responsible for more than 300 deaths, hers is not that kind of story. War changes the way we look at killing, and it certainly changes the way history remembers the person who does it. Ludmila wasn't feared as a murderer. She was celebrated as a soldier, a defender, and eventually a hero. Unless, of course, you happen to be fighting on the other side, then she was absolutely terrifying. So this episode may be a little less, what the hell were you thinking? And a little more admiration for one incredibly formidable woman. My friend Jen, who's joining us today, picked this one. So, Jen, tell us why you picked the woman that they called Lady Death.

SPEAKER_00 1:50

Well, I picked Ludmila because she's not our typical serial killer. She wasn't traumatized, beaten, became a psychopath, started killing. She's not interested in insurance money. She was actually, you know, sanctioned by the Soviet Union to be a professional killer. So her story is a little bit different. And because it was wartime, like you mentioned, this is when the Soviet Union was allowing women into combat positions, finally.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

Yeah, I mean, you needed them. They needed everybody. They needed everybody. Tell us a little bit about Lumita's early life.

SPEAKER_00 2:34

So Ludmila was born a Ludmila Mikhailanova Bolova. And the poor Russian pronunciations will continue.

SPEAKER_01 2:46

Yes. Especially for me.

SPEAKER_00 2:50

So she was born on July 12th in 1916. She was born in a small rural town of Balaya Terskov, which literally translates to white church. That falls in line with being in a rural area, right? You're like, oh, there's still a big white church. So ta-da, that's where she was born. And so she is known by her married name, which is Ludmilla Pavatchenko. So she got married at the young age of 16, where she fell in love with a gentleman by the name of Alexi. And they did have a son, but typical to our teenage loves, it did not last long. It naturally dissolved. Right. So they were only married about two years, but she kept his surname. So that's how we know her as Palachenko. Now she did have another love in her life later during the war. And this was with the junior lieutenant Alexi Leonod Kostov.

SPEAKER_01 3:54

So two Alexis.

SPEAKER_00 3:56

Two Alexis. How very Soviet Union.

unknown 3:59

I know.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

I guess Alexi is the John of uh Russia. What a great name. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 4:09

Alexi. It sounds sexy, right? It's fun to say. So, needless to say, since you pointed it out, she called him by his middle name, Leonid. So she called him like Leo for fun. Oh, okay. She definitely made it a point. She's like, I will not be calling you Lexi. So she was very forward-thinking on that too, as a woman, right? Like, I'm going to tell you what I'm going to call you. But he was a junior lieutenant in the Red Army as well, and a fellow sniper. Uh. So that happened later in her life.

SPEAKER_01 4:40

Yeah, tell me a little bit about her life before she joined the military and became a sniper.

SPEAKER_00 4:46

Okay, so like we said, she was born in 1916. So the Russian Civil War was coming to an end. That war was declared officially over in 1922. So she was eight years old when that war was over. So her parents, her father was a locksmith, again in a small town. And then he became a soldier in the Red Army and was in the Russian Civil War. So because of that, he continued to rank up in the military. Okay. Which then eventually allowed them to move to Kiev when she was 14. And that gave them stability. They didn't have to travel that military life anymore. So that was great to have like a home base.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

That's very, very common in the militaries. Yeah. So she was a military child. She was an army brat.

SPEAKER_00 5:37

Yeah, she was an army brat. Yeah. And now her mom came from Russian nobility. Oh, wow. I didn't know that. So her mom is highly educated, you know, the arts, you know, all the things. And she was an educator as two. And her specialty was foreign languages. That's what she was doing while in Kiev. She had four languages, and one of those was English. So yeah, she had the perfect pairing to become this, you know, world-class sniper, you know. So her parents having these two very different backgrounds, she was definitely influenced by her dad being in the Red Army. You know, she would have to know the discipline, the strict discipline, and then also have that heightened intellectual curiosity. So she was always, you know, looking to do things better or, you know, ask the questions and do the things. So yeah, she was quite a deal. And then to top it off, she was also able to go to sniper school while she was at university. And that was a pretty big deal. She was a woman, and then, of course, have the talent to be able to go to the sniper school. So one of the things that they did in sniper school, one of the games they would play was this bottle game. So you get this bottle, it's empty, you go line it up 30 meters away, you lay it on its side, like in a while branch. So you have this bottle laying here, like this, and here's like the open end of the bottle. And then from 30 meters away, you shoot into the bottleneck and blow off the back end. Wow. Talk about accuracy. Yeah, that's crazy. That's not like blowing tin cans off the fence like we do in Texas, right? No, this is a high-end. So she totally impressed her instructor with being able to do that like three out of five times, just practically day one. She clearly had an inborn talent for sniping. Yes. Whereas others probably, you know, they had to learn all of that. So, and then of course, while she was there, she was learning all the ballistics, you know, how bullets work, how they're spinning, wind, temperature, the weight of your bullet, you know, how all of that's gonna affect, you know, your shot. Right. And then of course surveillance. So like doing the camouflage stuff, which she really enjoyed too. Oh, and the love of her rifle. She had a Taz 8, that was her favorite sniper rifle.

SPEAKER_01 8:04

And so this is when she's in college or high school.

SPEAKER_00 8:08

Well, because it's different, right? Because we think high school, college, but over there, you know, it's like first year, second year, third year, fourth year, fifth year. So while she was at university, this would have been she was probably 21, 22 when she was at sniper school.

SPEAKER_01 8:26

Okay. So she's already been in this marriage and everything.

SPEAKER_00 8:30

Yeah, she's already been married, already had a kid. She's going to like regular school. So that's like the high-end sniper school, right? But when she was 14, she joined a shooting club because at the carnival, she shot 12 of the 15 targets.

SPEAKER_01 8:49

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_00 8:50

She felt so bad for the carnival guy that she gave all the prizes back. So that guy from the carnival, I'm sure he wasn't just your average Joe Schmo. I mean, he definitely, I would imagine, you know, let the club. Like, you need to get in this club. So then she's in this little club at 14. She's around her 20s, she's in sniping school, like she's, you know, going up.

SPEAKER_01 9:14

Going up the ranks. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 9:15

I don't really talk about like the whole woman thing, but she's a woman doing all of this. So, you know, eyes are on her and the things are happening, you know, being bullied and made fun of, being hit on, and all the things, all those things, all the things. All the things that come with breasts. Yeah. So not only during university, which I'm kind of guessing is more like all of your schooling. So she's also a really good athlete. So not only is she really super smart, she's really super athletic. And she is a pole vaulter, she's a sprinter.

SPEAKER_01 9:54

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 9:55

And she's little. I don't even think she's five feet tall. Wow. So she's this tiny little thing, just you know, again, when we talk about sniping, how she holds her gun and a shoulder and she's little, like she's like her own like rifle stand, you know? Like she's really one, you know, with her gun.

SPEAKER_01 10:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:16

So again, like super important that she and her rifle do have a relationship and she knows how all that works. But the other thing, too, that she the other thing I think she's still doing too, which starts at 14 when they move the Kiev, is she's working at the local armory.

SPEAKER_01 10:32

My God.

SPEAKER_00 10:33

So she's working at the armory during the day, where she held multiple positions. So she was like a grinder, and then she's doing the the weaving, you know, and then she's working in different departments. So she's learning not only different munitions, but she's learning every little bit and piece about how guns and artillery works.

SPEAKER_01 10:55

All the nuances, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:57

On top of, and then as they're developing new weapons too. So she's in it, you know, she's built for this.

SPEAKER_01 11:03

Yes, she is. I was about to say, like, we know where this is going. You know, you can predict where she's gonna go. She has no choice.

SPEAKER_00 11:12

She was designed for being a uh world-class sniper. So yeah, she goes to school at night, she works at the armory during the day, and that's like extra money so she can go to the theater and maybe, you know, buy lace and stuff. And then meanwhile, her mother is raising her son.

SPEAKER_01 11:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:31

So you're like, yeah, she's pretty bad at this.

SPEAKER_01 11:35

It's exhausting. What time frame is that? What's happening with the war?

SPEAKER_00 11:40

Americans aren't involved yet. So in 1941, she's a year from graduating. She would graduate 41-42, and she'd be finished with her fifth year, and then she would be out and become like either an educator or historian or you know, whatever kind of educational thing that women do. Yeah. But instead, the Germans invade. And they invade harshly. So in 1941, when they invade, there's just so much loss of life and just catastrophic, like just really changes the Red Army as they previously knew it because they're losing, like, and it's awful.

SPEAKER_01 12:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:21

So instead of going to the university, which eventually is blown up by the Germans, you know, she just heads to the recruiting office and answers her call of duty. And she knows that she has to be there. Like we said, she has all the credentials, all the things she needed to join and not just join, but really be effective.

SPEAKER_01 12:42

When she first joined, how did that go?

SPEAKER_00 12:45

She was rushed to the front lines. Thank you for joining. You are now, you are going. But yeah, she had to do her lump, so to speak. You know, they didn't have enough rifles for anyone because of, you know, they're getting their asses kicked. So she didn't even have a rifle in the beginning. She had to dig trenches and, you know, do manual labor until a rifle became available. And the way a rifle became available was that someone died, someone was killed.

SPEAKER_01 13:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:16

Fallen soldier. Fallen soldier. So that's how she got her first rifle. That's how that started. So during her time as the sniper, she got her 309 kills. That is a crazy number. Big number. So she was really able to put her skills to use in this award. So this is frontline stuff. So she has the 309 kills. Chris Klein here in America has 168. So that tells you where she is in the ranks, and we think he's a big deal. So Yeah. She was pretty kick-ass. She was famously quoted as having the balls of a man.

unknown 13:54

You know.

SPEAKER_00 13:55

You know, she was in it to win it. Yeah. Obviously, she hated the fascists. She had multiple opportunities to see. They called them the Klauses, the Germans, like what they did to the her people. Yeah. You know, it was just horrific. And we don't have to go into all of that because I feel like that's a different podcast. Yeah. The atrocities of the Nazis. We know what they are.

SPEAKER_01 14:18

Tell us a little bit about what happened on the front line.

SPEAKER_00 14:22

So she participated in two battles, right? So she's at the Siege of Odessa, and this is where she gets her 187 kills.

SPEAKER_01 14:31

Okay. There, wow.

SPEAKER_00 14:33

Yeah, 187 right off the bat. And that was only two months. So in two months, 187. Big deal. So again, she's just picking them off. Yeah. And then later is the Battle of Sevestapol. That takes longer. And that's where she gets her 122 kills. Yeah. And then 36 of those kills are snipers. But the not awesome thing that happens during the Battle of Sevestapool is they lose. They have to retreat. Yes. They get their booty kicked. And that's where she gets her final wound, her critical wound, if you will. And she's able to actually get to the retreat, like her being injured, and then the love of her life. Leonode, the other junior lieutenant.

SPEAKER_01 15:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:24

They had declared their love for each other and filed paperwork to get married. But he was killed two days later in this battle. And he died by shielding her body. Oh wow. But she made it to the evacuation, so at least she got out of Sessive Pool, right? So that's a big deal too, because you know how many people had to be left behind. Right. Because of her success with all the kills, the Germans knew who she was. And this is where they would shout out at her. They're taunting her, even. Yeah. So the Germans are are afraid of her because she is she's just picking the Fritzes off. So they'd say things like, Come to our side and we'll give you chocolate and we'll make you an officer and all this stuff. And we're gonna cut you in 309 pieces. And she's like, Oh, the Germans do know who I am, and they have an accurate kill count.

SPEAKER_01 16:20

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 16:21

So there's some prestige in that. How does that work?

SPEAKER_01 16:26

How does the accurate kill count work?

SPEAKER_00 16:28

So the accurate kill count works is that you have to have a witness, like you have to have another soldier that witnesses you doing this kill. So in battle, like, do you really think you're gonna get every kill is gonna be witnessed by someone else? Plus, you're a sniper, you're out there all by yourself. So you come back to camp. And they did, like, she kept a journal because she wanted to kill a thousand fascists before the war was over.

SPEAKER_01 16:53

That was her goal?

SPEAKER_00 16:54

That was her goal. Her goal was a thousand. So she was out there to get them.

SPEAKER_01 16:59

Before the second Alexi was killed, wasn't there a time where she almost died?

SPEAKER_00 17:05

Yeah, she had shrapnel all the time. Like her shoulder was jacked. But every time she got injured, she would, you know, patch me up and send me back. So really, when we talk about the tree, that happened early. That was the Siege of Odessa. So that's her first, you know.

SPEAKER_01 17:24

Okay, that was in the first one. Okay. That was in the first one.

SPEAKER_00 17:28

Yeah. So she's there with her sniper, and you know, sniper's shooting at her in a tree, so her cover is blown. So on purpose, she falls out of the tree, plays dead, plays possum. So she's in the ground.

SPEAKER_01 17:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:41

Covered with leaves, leaves and other dead soldiers, because it's a killing. At nighttime, she sneaks back off to her camp, and that's when they see her, where you know, her fellow officers see her, and they're looking at her, and they're like, Oh my god, she's a ghost. They're like, That can't be her, because she's clearly dead. Everyone's dead. And that's actually where she got her name Lady Death, is because they thought they saw a ghost. Oh, that's awesome. So not only was she Lady Death, but it was like, yeah, they were like, Oh my gosh, I can't believe she survived that.

SPEAKER_01 18:16

God, she's incredible.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

She's pretty badass.

SPEAKER_01 18:21

I mean, you think about it, being tiny, you know, it's like she was probably able to hide way better than the Russian soldiers.

SPEAKER_00 18:28

Yeah, and then maybe they would be looking for bigger bodies, right? You're looking for man soldiers. There's this tiny little thing hiding behind a trunk of a tree or something. They don't even look.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

Okay, so you said, you know, after she lost the love of her life, she was also injured. What happened?

SPEAKER_00 18:51

So that was the battle of Sevesterpol, that they were losing. Mortar, shrapnel, all the things, pain, whatever went through Alexi, you know, whatever she was protected through. But after that, then she was pulled out and brought back to Kiev. You know, that leads to her next journey. Yeah. So for her, the front lines are over. She's not returning. That's not gonna happen. Not happy about it, but the Soviets have plans for her.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

It's not just like, okay, you're dismissed.

SPEAKER_00 19:23

Right. You don't get to retire. Like they're still at war. There's a job for you somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

So what's that job?

SPEAKER_00 19:32

Because of the disaster of Sebastian Pool, she now becomes part of the International Student Assembly. So now they're gonna use her for propaganda and they're gonna try to get other countries into World War II. They need help. Yeah. They're losing. We're losing. We can't be the only ones fighting the Nazis. So they prop her up and send her to beloved America. But they don't only go to America, they go to other countries as well, simply like trying to get money and involvement and those things. So they really use her for that. Right. And when she comes to America, she's greeted by Roosevelt and his wife, Eleanor. And she is the first Soviet citizen to be welcomed into the White House.

SPEAKER_01 20:20

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 20:21

And of course, she and Eleanor really get along. There's a definite connection when they meet.

SPEAKER_01 20:29

Yeah, they become friends. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:31

Yeah. They're buddies. They're gonna be pen pals, all these other things. While Luna's on her world tour, which she didn't know about, she thought she'd be here for like a week and be like, hey, come help us and then get the hell out. But it wasn't that. It wasn't that. It wasn't that at all. It turned into four months. So they were just really impressed with her. And then she was with a fellow sniper too. So yeah, they would come and talk to the public. Did they travel? They traveled all over the US. And again, this is where her relationship with Eleanor is really, you know, because Eleanor, I'm sure, is the one that's behind this, pushing this. Like, we've got to get this gal in front of the TV. And Eleanor obviously recognizes how well educated she is. She also sees how injured she is. Eleanor invites them to their private estate, Hyde Park. So she gets to hang out there and, you know, really see, you know, how American nobility would live, I guess you could say. So again, it's right there in her DNA, ready to go. She can hold her own and all of this. And Eleanor is there to show her the way. So she's coaching her as she's on her world tour, so to speak. And a safe place for her to speak her mind. Because what would be typical during that time is, you know, the government was involved with everything. So anything that Luda spoke out loud had to be, you know, approved. But she went off script in Chicago. In a very famous fashion, she's, you know, doing her thing, talking to the people, and she says to a crowd of men, I am 25 years old, gentlemen. I am at the front lines. I have killed 309 fascist soldiers, officers. So, gentlemen, don't you think that you have been hiding too long behind my back?

SPEAKER_01 22:27

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 22:28

So it's like she's calling them out. And then this is happening through a translator. So you know it's like silence, and then the translator, you know, she didn't know what was happening. It was so quiet. It was like dead silent. And then it was just roars. And it's such a big deal. Like it hits all the front pages in the US. I bet. And then typical, like as she's going around American journalists doing what they do, they're asking stupid stuff. Like, is your skirt too long? Is your skirt too short? What kind of lipstick do you wear? And this one guy asked her, like, what color silk panties does she wear? Who asked that? I don't know. I'm sure it's in the records, but a reporter? A reporter, yeah. And she was like, What? You would be slapped to ask a completely inappropriate question.

SPEAKER_01 23:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:20

It was something to the effect of the only person that needs to know the color would be your husband or your lover.

SPEAKER_01 23:26

That's inappropriate, yes.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

Why would you ask a Soviet soldier? So the patriarchy was alive and well still in America back in 19 or whatever. 1943.

SPEAKER_01 23:39

So we joined, obviously, Pearl Harbor was the biggest factor, but she really was, you know, instrumental in opening our eyes.

SPEAKER_00 23:50

Yeah. Like you said, we hadn't joined yet. So she was getting money and doing what she was supposed to to help her people. And then of course she's a female face and she so be it. Like, yeah, she was a big deal. But then because of, you know, her world tour and and that sort of thing, when she got back, you know, home after they were finished with their part of the war, 44, 45, she was able to go back to university and she finally completed her fifth year. Oh, that's good. She did get to graduate, but she was the only woman and she was the oldest. She was 28 when she finished her fifth year.

SPEAKER_01 24:26

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 24:28

So again, she's still knocking off all the barriers, right? It's like check, check, check. So what did she do after she became a uh researcher for the Navy, and then that's what she did for the rest of her years. Now I didn't get into you know what she did later later. But things got weird after World War II because then we're talking like communism, the philosophies were changing. So some people would might not consider her a hero, but the reality was that she was at that time for sure. But she was able to complete, you know, had a job, all that. And I believe it was said that she did get married again. But she also, because of her story, more women were allowed to become snipers. Then there became an all-female sniper school. Oh wow. So they had their own thing going on. You know, she was behind that. And then after the war, she was involved, like they had sniping contests and you know, markmanship contests, they have medals named after her. She was able to finally visit her true love's grave because she never saw him after he was killed. And so she did go back and where he is buried, and you know, that was like in 1970. You know, so it took a while for her to, you know, truly say goodbye to him. Wow. Then she would be honored with things, but of course that didn't happen until after the war. They had the war had to settle down before she started getting her medals and oh she got her first stamp in 1946. Oh, she was on a postage stamp? She was on a post stamp, right? She got another one in 1976 after her own death. And like any soldiers in military, that see war, she suffered. And at that time they called it post-trauma neuroses.

SPEAKER_01 26:23

So it's PTSD.

SPEAKER_00 26:25

Yeah. She was an alcoholic. And she's Russian, so vodka was her drink of choice, and that's how she passed. She had a stroke.

SPEAKER_01 26:34

At that time, Russia didn't have any programs, right, to treat post-traumatic neurosis. I read somewhere that they thought any kind of rehabilitation programs were like voodoo science or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 26:47

Yeah, that would make sense. No, because they're just these strong soldiers, strong Soviet people. You don't show weakness of what PTSD looks like, you know. So I think about that with her being a researcher. She was a nice, quiet, chill, doing her history phase, writing her notes, you know, and then reports, checks, balances, because like the Soviets and everything that you do. So yeah, she was, you know, writing, writing and trying to stay alive.

SPEAKER_01 27:16

How old was she when she passed? She was pretty young still.

SPEAKER_00 27:20

She was, she was 58 and she suffered a stroke. That was due to her alcoholism.

SPEAKER_01 27:25

Poor thing. Probably a lot of a broken heart, too, and just all the stuff she went through.

SPEAKER_00 27:30

Yeah, the life that she led. And you can see it in the pictures too. Like when you see photos of her as a young woman with her rifle and stuff, you know, little, petite, young twinties, you know, do-do-do-do. And then after the war and even after her tour in America. And then too, the life of a sniper. She's out there for 12 to 15 hours when you're doing a snipe. I forgot to tell you about an important sniping situation. She had a three-day duel with a fellow sniper. So that was not uncommon. That's one sniper against another. And those would be 15 to 16 hours. But this one was three days long. So she never left her post for three days. Three days. Wow. Of not moving. Like you have to be in the the best physical condition to do that for three days. So no food or drink or anything. Yeah, you can't leave. I mean, you can't like shuffle away. You can't move. I think he's like behind a rock. She might be behind a rock or a hill, and you can't have any movement that will set off where your position is. So that's crazy. Crazy. And then, of course, like you said, like, you know, not having anything to eat or drink, but a regular sniping duel will be 12 to 15 hours.

SPEAKER_01 28:46

Three days. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 28:48

So yeah, there was definitely the physical toll of her being a soldier. And then, of course, the mental toll.

SPEAKER_01 28:55

Well, she was extraordinary. Like, there's no other words. And I'm so glad you picked her because, you know, I always get to do my research and I didn't really know anything about her. So when I started researching her, I didn't know what to expect. But I ended up getting a song by Woody Guthrie, a friendship with Eleanor Roosevelt, and a connection to Call of Duty.

SPEAKER_00 29:19

Luta definitely answered her Call of Duty. Yes, Call of Duty. So much so. She's still part of Americana. She's still part of world history, right? In today's version. Pew-pew-piew pew pew.

SPEAKER_01 29:33

So let's start with the song. In 1942, Ludmila traveled to the U.S. as part of the Soviet Goodwill tour, and Americans were fascinated by her, as you've already said. And so was Woody Guthrie. Back in an episode I did, Isla Cook, he wrote a song about her too. And it turns out that his wife that he was married to at the time during World War II, her mother was Yiddish. So he was very disturbed. And, you know, it was a personal, like, you know, this has got to end type situation for him. And so, of course, he was so inspired he wrote a song about her called Miss Pavlinchenko. And I listened to it on Spotify. It's of course bulky and it's got some good lyrics. But she also met, as you just said, first lady, Eleanor Roosevelt, and they genuinely connected and obviously an unlikely friendship. One was a young Soviet soldier and who had spent their life on the battlefield, basically, and the other was the first lady of the United States. And they just saw each other. This is going to become important later when I do the astrology part. So just remember about their beautiful friendship. And so I found a movie called The Battle for Sebestapol. And it isn't just that battle that you talked about. It's about kind of like her life. And I really, really liked it. I found it on Prime. I know you'd mentioned you had a different take on it, right?

SPEAKER_00 30:58

Yeah, because I listened to her memoir, which is where the movie comes from, too. You know, according to her book, yeah, it was pretty accurate. It was the last battle that she saw. But also the love stories were were changed up a bit. There wasn't that creepy doctor guy that kept popping up.

SPEAKER_01 31:15

Okay, yeah. So I was gonna ask, that's why I'm glad we I you watched it too, and you listened to the memoirs.

SPEAKER_00 31:21

I was like, who's this guy? Like, what? What's he doing? And I think something I didn't mention was while she was on her tour here in America, the creepy guy would actually be this American millionaire who I think he was in textiles and stuff. Uh-huh. He actually was the creepy guy. Eleanor had to get involved.

SPEAKER_01 31:42

Wait, what? Yeah. Which creepy guy in the movie?

SPEAKER_00 31:47

Her real life.

SPEAKER_01 31:48

Oh, her real life creepy guy.

SPEAKER_00 31:50

Her real life creepy guy was.

SPEAKER_01 31:51

So she kind of had a little bit of a stalker situation going on.

SPEAKER_00 31:55

Yeah, she had a little bit of a stalker because again, typical American businessman with a bunch of money was like, let me buy this little Russian hero gal. And she, of course, would have no part of it. But yeah, he tried to ask her to marry him, and Eleanor was like, no, no. And Eleanor, and then Eleanor asked her, like, why wouldn't you? You would be taken care of for the rest of your life. And she's like, my people are dying. Yeah, no, I'm not here for that. You guys are still not getting, you're so close. So yeah, she did have her own American stalker, not that guy in the movie.

SPEAKER_01 32:33

Well, okay, really quick, I'm gonna wrap up the movie and then move on to some other things. But, you know, obviously I was expecting it to be just a war movie, but it's a lot more than that. It's personal and love life. And it was not a Hollywood production. It was a joint Ukrainian-Russian project that began before relations between those two countries dramatically deteriorated. And Ludmila was part of the shared Soviet history of both countries, and so both countries considered her a hero. While that movie was being made, history intervened. Russia annexed Crimea in 2014. And some filming had already taken place in Crimea, including Sevestapol and Balaklava, and production ultimately continued in other locations. So you have a Ukrainian-Russian production telling the story of a woman who fought at Sevestapol during World War II, while a new conflict involving Russia, Ukraine, and Crimea was unfolding around the filmmakers, and that's just incredible timing.

SPEAKER_00 33:36

And it makes so much sense for how they're built over there. They're built for war. Every little country is going to war with someone. And really, I would imagine it's landowners, farmers, and such that are just trying to live their lives. And then they have to get involved. And it makes sense that in 2015 it was like Russia annexed. And you're like, it's not like here in the States when you like draw a line, have a city council meeting and annex gerrymandering is what we call it in Temps.

unknown 34:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:05

Over there, it's like people are dying. Like it's totally different.

SPEAKER_01 34:10

Yeah. Well, I mean, shoot, it's going on now, you know? So another thing obviously was the memoir that you brought up. So yeah, if you want her without the Hollywood or technically without the Ukrainian-Russian movie treatment, you can actually read her story in her own words. Her memoir is available in English as Lady Death, the memoir of Stalin Sniper.

SPEAKER_00 34:33

Yeah, Stalin Sniper.

SPEAKER_01 34:36

And if you'd rather have historical fiction, which is interesting, I want to read this one: The Diamond Eye by Kate Quinn. It was inspired by Ludmila's life. And it's not a biography, it's just an example of how her story can be retold. So she's in Call of Duty Vanguard. Technically, it's not her. They call the sniper Paulina Petrova, but they said it's mainly inspired by her and other female snipers because they became accepted, like you said, in Russia. Anyway, so now I want to get back into something I mentioned earlier, Eleanor Roosevelt. Because when I pulled Ludmila's birth chart, their friendship became even more interesting to me. So I'm going to jump into the astrology now. Yeah, for sure. So Ludmila Pavlinchenko was born July 12th, 1916, making her a cancer son. And unfortunately, I couldn't find a recorded birth time. So we don't know her rising sign or exact house placements, but we can still look at her sun, moon, and Mars, which is what we're going to do. And obviously, my disclaimer is always astrology doesn't make someone a hero, a soldier, or a killer. Millions of people have these placements and they're living different lives. Okay. But let's go back to her. So let's start with Cancer Sun. Cancer is often described as emotional and nurturing. This is the sign associated with home, family, roots, and the instinct to protect what belongs to you. And considering everything we've just talked about, I don't think I have to work very hard to make that connection, right? But Mila saw herself as defending her homeland. And cancer isn't actually the placement that fascinates me the most in her chart. That would be her moon in Sagittarius. The moon represents our emotional world, our instincts, and what motivates us deep down. Sagittarius is associated with beliefs, philosophy, conviction, and the search for something bigger than yourself. And this is where Ludmila caught my attention. When she talked about what she'd done during the war, she didn't frame it around killing individual people. She talked about fighting fascism. And it's an important distinction in the way she understood her own actions. In her mind, she wasn't simply taking lives. She was fighting an ideology and defending her country. Yeah, and that's fascinating to me because Sagittarius Moon wants to know what do I believe in? What does this mean? What is the bigger purpose? These are questions that they ask themselves. For someone living through the realities, Ludmila experience, that conviction may have helped her make sense of what she was being asked to do. And then she has her Mars in Virgo. If we're making up an astrology chart for one of the greatest snipers in history, you might give her Mars in Virgo. So Mars represents how we act. It's our drive, our aggression, our physical energy, and the way we go after something. And Virgo is meticulous, patient, observant, methodical, precise. It notices what everybody else misses. You know, now think about what a sniper actually does. They're waiting, watching, calculating distance and movement, controlling their breathing and studying their surroundings. And you may be sitting completely still for an incredibly long time and waiting for the exact right moment. And that's not impulsive Mars energy. And Mars energy is typically impulsive and aggressive. So that Mars and Virgo calms it down. And Virgo also refines things through repetition, practices, studying and adjusts. And it gives a little better and better until the skill becomes almost automatic. And you mentioned earlier she did. She learned things and studied and made, you know, she became better at everything. She didn't become successful because she was reckless. She became successful because she mastered an extraordinarily technical skill.

SPEAKER_00 38:35

There you go. She was a master.

SPEAKER_01 38:37

Yeah, she was a master. So let's get to Eleanor Roosevelt, because this is where it gets fun. Remember, Ludmilla is a cancer sun, and Eleanor has a cancer moon. Cancer's the sign of protection and compassion, and these two women expressed it in completely different ways. Ludmila expressed it through physically defending her homeland. Eleanor expressed it through humanitarian work and advocating for people who don't always have a voice of their own. And then it gets even better. Ludmila had a Sagittarius moon. Eleanor had a Sagittarius rising. We have her exact birth time, so we do know her ascendant. And so remember, I just said Sagittarius represents beliefs, ideals, purpose, and something bigger than yourself. So one woman carried those ideas onto the battlefield, the other carried them into diplomacy and eventually into her work, helping shape the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. One fought with the rifle, the other fought with words. Different battlefields, but perhaps not entirely different missions. And suddenly that unlikely friendship doesn't feel so unlikely to me. So when I put Ludmila's chart together, these are the three placements I keep coming back to. A Cancer sun with the instinct to protect home, a Sagittarius moon that needed to believe there was a greater purpose behind what she was doing, and Mars and Virgo giving us patience, discipline, and incredible precision. You know, astrology didn't make Ludmela a sniper, but whether you believe in astrology or simply just enjoy using it as another lens through which to look at history like I do, these three placements tell a pretty fascinating story about the woman the world came to know as Lady Death.

SPEAKER_00 40:20

That's fascinating when you brought up the fact that you did Eleanor's chart too. I mean, we had to. Their relationship just magical.

SPEAKER_01 40:31

It was it almost was meant to be. It was like the stars aligned. And you mentioned, or you told me right, that Eleanor visited Russia.

SPEAKER_00 40:42

Yeah, she went back in 1956-57. And again, that was kind of a big deal. Eleanor, I know, not the first lady anymore. And you know, the tides were changing with our relationship again.

SPEAKER_01 40:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 40:54

But Eleanor definitely made sure that she got to see Luda again.

SPEAKER_01 40:59

That's good. I'm glad. Thanks, Jen. This was fun, more like empowering than you know, oh my god, she's the worst, right? She's the best. She's the 309 kills. That's a lot of kills. And a woman did it. And a woman did it. There you go. Thank you so much. Good seeing you. This has been a pleasure. Bye. Bye. The Femme Fatal. Created and hosted by Stacy Dodson. Produced by Mark Williams. Music by Marcia Yingling, Chad Chase, and Greg Loicano.